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Re: Where are the Flags ?By Bertasion in Valley of the Sun Casual Club The other day upon the heather fair I hit a flagstick that was not there. I saw it's shadow and heard the clank but where it stood was just a blank. It was not there again today. I wonder when it will come back and stay. Brian
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VOTSCC Club Championship

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subject title VOTSCC Club Championship

Post by Paul on Mon 12 Oct 2015, 00:52


  • robmurphy4

    552 Posts
    09-22-2015 4:24 AM

    Hi all,
     I was wondering if there is any interest in having a Fedex like club tourney. Points would be accumulated and the top ? would play in the playoffs. There are 16 courses available to play. Maybe 14 for points and the last 2 would be the playoffs. All matches would be single play full 18 holes. Let me know what you think and please add your own thoughts also. Thanks.
    Rob

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  • JimQ916

    1,134 Posts
    09-22-2015 8:35 AM

    Rob....great concept but us lower tier guys have absolutely no chance of competing at the L - TC members. I'd give it a go but wouldn't expect too much in the form of having a chance to win. You have my vote as it would be interesting though....Jim

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  • Smok3y22

    62 Posts
    09-22-2015 9:54 AM

    Sounds like a great idea rob,  as jim says prob wont win but will be fun 2 take part in if i can as i play on mobile device??

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  • Bertasion

    87 Posts
    09-22-2015 10:06 AM

    I think that would be fun, and while it would be twice the effort, it would probably be more enjoyable if it was split into upper and lower tiers.  I think we all understand the difficulty of competing against a TL or L from a tier lower than TM.  Brian

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  • Skip380

    100 Posts
    09-22-2015 1:36 PM

    My vote is yes. Would be a lot of fun. For the tier problem I would suggest a handicap system maybe. Like TL are scratch, Legend -1, TM -2 etc. That might work but of course the TL are handicapped in itself with champ greens and longer tees. Maybe I am stupid lol

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  • robmurphy4

    552 Posts
    09-22-2015 1:52 PM


     Skip380:
    I would suggest a handicap system

    Skip,
     That's a great idea. Would only mean one tourney going instead of 2. Just have to figure out fair way to handicap. Also, points for ties. Wgt doesn't break it down past first place. Still lots to figure out but I will continue to work on it. 
    Rob

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  • pdb1

    5,558 Posts
    09-22-2015 3:02 PM

      Something could be worked out .
      We could make our own scoring . For instance , 2 points for a win , 0 point for a loss , 1 point each for a tie . ( there are other ways ) 
      Also in practice mode in matchplay you can set any green speed agreed upon by different tiered opponents . The matches would count if scored by our own scoring system . 
    Golf scoring terms
    Albatross: Three shots less than par
    Eagle: Two shots less
    Birdie: One shot less
    Bogey: One shot more
    Double bogey: Two shots more
    Triple bogey: Three shots more Contd....
     
    STABLEFORD
     
    In this type of competition points are awarded depending on the score for each hole.
     
    It was designed to speed up play - as soon as a player can no longer score a point he can pick up his ball.
     
    A player scores one point for a bogey, two for par, three for a birdie, four for an eagle and five for an albatross.
     
    You win a competition by scoring the most points overall.
     

    Normal stableford system
    Albatross: Five points
    Eagle: Four points
    Birdie: Three points
    Par: Two points
    Bogey: One point
    On an amateur level, if a player takes six shots on a par-four hole but is entitled to a shot because of his handicap, his net score is five.
     

    What is a handicap?
    That would be a bogey which entitles him to one point.
     
    The points can be modified - for instance so the rewards for scores below par are higher.
     
    MATCHPLAY
     
    in this system of scoring, each hole is played as a mini match.
     
    The player with the lowest net score for the hole is said to win the hole, the par of each hole doesn't matter.
     
    Matchplay terms
    Up: A player is ahead in the match
    Down: A player is behind in the match
    All square: Players have the same score
    Halved: Players half the hole when they take the same number of shots
    Dormie: E.g. A player is two holes up with two to play
    3&2: E.g. A player is three holes up with two holes to play

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  • pdb1

    5,558 Posts
    09-22-2015 3:10 PM

    Median[edit]

    Main article: Buchholz system
    The Median system is also known as the Harkness System, after its inventor Kenneth Harkness. For each player, this system sums the number of points earned by the player's opponents, but discarding the highest and lowest. If there are nine or more rounds, the top two and bottom two scores are discarded. Unplayed games by the opponents count ½ point. Unplayed games by the player count zero points. This is also known as theMedian-Buchholz System (Just & Burg 2003:199–200).

    Modified Median[edit]

    The Modified Median system is similar to the Median system, except:

    • Players with exactly 50% score are handled as in the regular Median system
    • Players with more than 50% score have only their lowest-scoring opponent's score discarded
    • Players with less than 50% score have only their highest-scoring opponent's score discarded (Just & Burg 2003:199–200).

    Solkoff[edit]

    This system is the same as the Median system, except that no scores are discarded (Just & Burg 2003:200). Ephraim Solkoff did not invent this system. He introduced it to the United States in 1950, but it was used in England prior to that (Harkness 1967:138).

    Cumulative[edit]

    To calculate this, sum the running score for each round. For example, if a player has (in order) a win, loss, win, draw, and a loss; his round-by-round score will be 1, 1, 2, 2½, 2½. The sum of these numbers is 9. This system places more weight on games won in the early rounds and the least weight on games won in the final rounds. The rationale for this system is that a player who scored well early in the tournament has most likely faced tougher opponents in later rounds and should therefore be favored over a player who scored poorly in the start before subsequently scoring points against weaker opponents (Just & Burg 2003:200–201).

    Cumulative opponent's score[edit]

    This sums the cumulative scores of the player's opponents (Just & Burg 2003:202).

    Result between tied players[edit]

    If the tied players played each other, if one of them won then he finishes higher on tie-break (Just & Burg 2003:201).

    Most games with the black pieces[edit]

    The player that had the black pieces the most times finishes highest on tie-breaks (Just & Burg 2003:201).

    Most wins (Baumbach)[edit]

    The player with the most wins finishes highest on tie-breaks. This is used as the first tie-break rule for individual tournaments in ICCF.

    Kashdan[edit]

    Invented by Isaac Kashdan, this system awards four points for a win, two points for a draw, one point for a loss, and none for an unplayed game. As a result, if players with no unplayed games tie, the one with fewer draws finishes higher on the tie-break (i.e. a win and a loss is better than two draws) (Just & Burg 2003:201).

    Sonneborn-Berger score[edit]

    Main article: Sonneborn-Berger score
    Add the scores of every opponent the player beats and half of the score of every opponent the player draws (Just & Burg 2003:201). The system was named after William Sonneborn and Johann Berger, but it was invented by Oscar Gelbfuhs (Harkness 1967:137). The system is the main tie-breaking system in round robin tournaments, but is also used in Swiss tournaments. It is also called the Neustadtl score.
    What we call the Sonneborn-Berger system was not invented by Sonneborn or Berger, and it was not originally designed for tie-breaking. It was invented by Oscar Gelbfuhs about 1873 to be used as a weighted score in round-robin tournaments. It would be used instead of the raw score for final places. In 1886 Sonneborn criticized the system and suggested an improvement that would give a better weighted score. His suggestion was to add the square of the player's points to the amount calculated as above. In 1887 and 1888 Berger studied Gelbfuhs' system and the suggestion of Sonneborn. This improvement became known as the Sonneborn-Berger system.[citation needed]
    When the system is used to break ties between equally scoring players, adding in the square of the player's raw score does no good, so the Sonneborn improvement is omitted. However, the system has retained the Sonneborn-Berger name (Harkness 1967:136–37).

    Opponent's performance[edit]

    This method uses the average performance rating of the player's opponents. The "performance rating" of a player is basically the rating he would receive if he had started the tournament without a rating (Just & Burg 2003:202).

    Average rating of opposition[edit]

    The average rating of the player's opponents (Just & Burg 2003:202).

    Time of loss[edit]

    Among tied players, the player whose first loss came last gets priority. If player A’s first loss was in round 4 and player B’s first loss was in round 2, player A gets priority. This was a tiebreaker used by POP in 2004-2005.

    Tardiness[edit]

    If a player arrives after the first round is paired, the player loses priority. This tiebreaker is currently used by POP.

    Speed play-off games[edit]

    The tie is broken by one or more games played with fast time control, or Fast chess.

    Single fast game[edit]

    FIDE rules provide for a single fast decisive game. Black gets five minutes on the clock whereas White gets six minutes but must win (i.e. a draw counts as a win for Black). The player who wins the draw of lots may choose which color he wants.

    Coin flip[edit]

    As a last resort, ties are broken by a random process such as a coin flip (Just & Burg 2003:203).

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  • robmurphy4

    552 Posts
    09-22-2015 4:33 PM

    Paul,
     you got all that stuff just stored in your head. LOL Great amount of really good info. I think we can do this. 
    Rob

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  • kmamjmemedmmm

    146 Posts
    09-22-2015 5:53 PM

    Hi Rob, I am in.
     
    Kevin

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  • pdb1

    5,558 Posts
    09-22-2015 6:05 PM


     robmurphy4:
     you got all that stuff just stored in your head.

    Lol .  Yeah Rob . Of course . not  .Anything else you want to know ?

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  • xdout

    522 Posts
    09-22-2015 6:54 PM

    I'm in fellas

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  • CrustyDemon1

    136 Posts
    09-23-2015 1:23 AM

    I wanna play tooooo...
    But.....


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  • JimQ916

    1,134 Posts
    09-23-2015 6:28 AM

    I'll play with any handicap format used even if non is implemeted but would much rather have one in place so I at least can smell the the top of the leaderboard. To me the Stableford system is the best but not sure you can set anything up like that. My second chioce would be a tiered Tournament but know that is double the work. Keep racking your brain Rob....you always come up with a great answer...Jim

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