Level 90-130 Tour pro's Cheating?

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  EK2019 36 Posts

  Fri, Feb 26 2021 6:28 AM

  
  Hey community, what is up with the players that are on Level 90-130 that are still "Tour Pro's". Shouldn't that be consider cheating? I have played some guys recently and I have to tee off way back since I am legend and they are teeing off from the ladies tees and are on a much higher level than I am and "as good". This is a bad flaw in the game when playing for coins or for whatever game type.  
  This should be dealt with some how..Did they just play practice games their whole time playing on WGT in order to NOT get moved up to the next tier...? 
  Either WGT needs to fix this, or NOT allow pro's and tour pros to have access to drivers that are the same driving length from the Ladies tees as from the Legend tee's.
  It is cheating no matter how you look at it..
  Thanks!!
  Eric
   
  
  
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  jeffdos924 1,085 Posts

  Fri, Feb 26 2021 7:20 AM

  
  Levels have nothing to do with ability. You can buy crap in the pro shop to boost your level, enabling you to purchase better equipment.   Tiers are still primarily based on ranked and/or tournament rounds to establish you so-called average.
   Play all the unranked stroke play, CTTH, alt-shot, match play, etc. rounds you want and your level goes up with your "average"  being affected ...buy the boosts and levels go up even faster.
   IMO, the single , dumbest thing WGT ever did was to make equipment level-based instead of tier-based.
  
  
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  EK2019 36 Posts

  Fri, Feb 26 2021 7:44 AM

  
  Yes and that is the problem, someone can play just practice rounds and move all the way up through high levels but stay at pro or tour pro. Then they can buy long drives and tee off from the ladies tees. It is not "fare". WGT should make restrictions on the Driver lengths if someone is teeing off from Tour pro tees and I have the same driver from the Legends tee's. Not easy to do but something is not right with this. Fortunately I beat most of them usually, but it is not fare by any means. Specially on the coin base games...
  Or they need to average out peoples real scores whether they are playing practice games or not..
  
  
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  terryntx 56 Posts

  Fri, Feb 26 2021 8:09 AM

  
  well u are right alot of them do that and i think its funny if they do thatto win some bs coin on a video game they dont have much of a life and if you r worried about losing coins that mean nothing u should take up bowling
  
  
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  Mythanatos 2,174 Posts

  Fri, Feb 26 2021 9:58 AM

  
  Few things about this.
  if they are tour pros and 90+ they aren't  good.
  WGT has enough stuff in play to tier them up to prevent sandbagging. so if they haven't tiered their skill level is poor.
  if you are a legend and playing in coin rooms that are tier based tees for more than two weeks then you aren't very good either. there are only 3 of those and 7 that are set tees. 
  most of the  rooms have set tees regardless of level or tier.
  so in the very beginning you might need to play lower rooms with tier based tees to get enough of a stack to move up to casablanca or  Rio both of which  are set tees and use the master/TM tees. 
  Tokyo and above use the back tees.
   
   
  also in regards to the poster that said gear should be tier based that's an even dumber idea than levels. levels at least take more time.
  tiers are manipulated. by virtually everyone artificially lowering their averages by playing thousands of red tee tourneys. I've seen TCs less than level 100. and almost always those people are easy meat in Bellagio or Tokyo.
   
  what you're saying is someone should have access to better gear than me because they play thousands  of easy tourneys. i i only play those from back tees and usually high winds. 
  there may be some flaws in level based... but it's not as much as if it were tier based.
  
  
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  IamNicklaus 489 Posts

  Sat, Feb 27 2021 4:22 AM

  
  
  

   Mythanatos:
  
  Few things about this.
  if they are tour pros and 90+ they aren't  good.
  WGT has enough stuff in play to tier them up to prevent sandbagging. so if they haven't tiered their skill level is poor.
  if you are a legend and playing in coin rooms that are tier based tees for more than two weeks then you aren't very good either. there are only 3 of those and 7 that are set tees. 
  most of the  rooms have set tees regardless of level or tier.
  so in the very beginning you might need to play lower rooms with tier based tees to get enough of a stack to move up to casablanca or  Rio both of which  are set tees and use the master/TM tees. 
  Tokyo and above use the back tees.
   
   
  also in regards to the poster that said gear should be tier based that's an even dumber idea than levels. levels at least take more time.
  tiers are manipulated. by virtually everyone artificially lowering their averages by playing thousands of red tee tourneys. I've seen TCs less than level 100. and almost always those people are easy meat in Bellagio or Tokyo.
   
  what you're saying is someone should have access to better gear than me because they play thousands  of easy tourneys. i i only play those from back tees and usually high winds. 
  there may be some flaws in level based... but it's not as much as if it were tier based.
  
  

  
   
  The bolded bit  just isn't true .  Certainly  for a pc player you could reach say tourpro  and  then just play alt shot  or matchplay against  other tourpros or lower tiers, never saturate  , reap the benefits  of getting better clubs as you level up from the front tees and  be a very a good player .  If that isn't the definition of  sandbagging  and an illustration of how easy it is then I have no idea what is . 
  
  
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  EK2019 36 Posts

  Sun, Feb 28 2021 7:45 AM

  
  You are exactly right. Sandbgging is a better word for cheating. Coins or not, it is an error in the game.
  The guy who wrote they probably are not good players has no idea how leveling up or Tiering up works on WG.
  It is cheating, period. 
  It cannot be that a level 90 tour pro average score of 150 has the same clubs as me and tees off from the ladies tees.  
  
  
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  IamNicklaus 489 Posts

  Mon, Mar 1 2021 9:44 AM

  
  Having had a long think about the whole issue around sandbagging , the only way I can see a solution to prevent it happening is to form xp  around scoring averages ...i.e  you would only gain xp when you reduce your average ...in conjunction with clubs purchasable when you reach a certain level  this would prevent people from being able to hold on  to their tier falsely , to a degree
  
  
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  Mythanatos 2,174 Posts

  Mon, Mar 1 2021 1:09 PM

  
  
  

   EK2019:
  
  You are exactly right. Sandbgging is a better word for cheating. Coins or not, it is an error in the game.
  The guy who wrote they probably are not good players has no idea how leveling up or Tiering up works on WG.
  It is cheating, period. 
  It cannot be that a level 90 tour pro average score of 150 has the same clubs as me and tees off from the ladies tees.  
  
  

  
  oh really?
  I've tiered up every which way you can.
  Master to TM and TM to Legend tiering up were both early because i won  Ready gos.
  Legend to TL was because i saturated and then eventually dropped the average low enough 300+ rounds later.
  TL to Champion i only had about 69 ranked rounds. But tiered up due to coin room success and whatever algorithm they use for that.
  for the first 2.5 years i played I played about 50% on PC and 50% on mobile.
  so to be quite frank about it. I know more how tiering up and levels work than you do. I know more about the nuances of both games than you do. I played each one probably more than you have on both combined. 
  I've never played a Tour Pro level 90+ that was any good. and i've played lots in coin rooms. If you're getting beat then it's a skill thing. 
  And actually looking at your score history it's definitely a skill problem. Did you red tee tourney your way to legend? 
  it's not a gear problem because me and many others i know were posting better scores at level 80 and you're 90+.
  The bottom line here is you're a Tour Pro with a legend label and that's why you're getting beat by higher level Tour pros.
   
  
  
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  SimonTheBeetle 3,424 Posts

  Mon, Mar 1 2021 1:50 PM

  
  
  

   EK2019:
  It cannot be that a level 90 tour pro average score of 150 has the same clubs as me and tees off from the ladies tees.  

  
  I've encountered many of these players in the coin rooms. It's okay though 'cause I beat them most of times anyways and even if I lose, it's only the freaking useless coins that get wasted. So... let 'em be "ladies". LOL
  
  

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  Robert1893 7,475 Posts

  Mon, Mar 1 2021 6:51 PM

  
  
  

   IamNicklaus:
  The bolded bit  just isn't true .  Certainly  for a pc player you could reach say tourpro  and  then just play alt shot  or matchplay against  other tourpros or lower tiers, never saturate  , reap the benefits  of getting better clubs as you level up from the front tees and  be a very a good player .  If that isn't the definition of  sandbagging  and an illustration of how easy it is then I have no idea what is

  
  Well, first of all, a player can be tiered up based on match play. And second of all, if they're sandbagging to simply win alt shot or match play round, where's the real harm? Sure, on a personal level, it could be irritating. But what benefits are they reaping? Additionally, the solutions is simple: don't play those people. 
  But if they enter tournaments and start winning, then they'll be tiered up. 
  
  
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  Robert1893 7,475 Posts

  Mon, Mar 1 2021 6:53 PM

  
  
  

   EK2019:
  The guy who wrote they probably are not good players has no idea how leveling up or Tiering up works on WGT.

  
  LOL! 
  While you may or may not like the person, he most definitely knows what he's talking about. There's no doubt about that. 
  
  
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  Shadowridge85 8 Posts

  Mon, Mar 1 2021 7:51 PM

  
  Well there is the problem a "Real" Tour-pro is facing. I busted my butt getting this far and what about the flip-side of this? I have encountered more Tour masters and Legends and Tour Legends and the 2 Champion levels, though only 3 or 4 I think. When it comes to the lower rooms, there are tons of low avg. great players and the match-ups are 75% unfair! Where else can I earn the sponsor packs? So, I got beat a lot and complained of the match-ups and then I set the Swing Edge bonus and tore off quite a few wins. The problem there was that I got addicted sort of and paid 75 credits or less for early sponsor play. I was not in rooms for coins as much as gear. 
  Somewhere along the way golfing for fun, gear, new clubs, trying to lower avg. (lots of rounds need to be played yet) it got tougher to win and I got this feeling like Wgt was running matches, shots, and wind and everything against me and the match-ups got much fairer. Now it was pro, ams, tp's and masters that had higher avgs....even some hacks. Well it seemed fair and square but not so much as I still got beat by some ams, pros and tp's that didn't have avgs. or high. So I looked at the gear and clubs and many had nothing but wgt clubs and a level 2 SE shirt. And I am new, but up till this day it looks and feels like WGT has many ringers working the rooms. IDK maybe they target me for some complaints and suggesting I would go to the BBB and higher.....LoL I am jabberin now, but I am just glad someone pointed out the Legends workin the lower rooms! As TP I have 1 option for my level and its Bev Hills, but who wants to play 9 all the time and use the whole 30 mins up for sponsor time? Anyway, new to game and just started forums yesterday. Maybe will help me "simmer down now" lol
  
  
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  IamNicklaus 489 Posts

  Mon, Mar 1 2021 8:21 PM

  
  
  

   Robert1893:
  
  
  

   IamNicklaus:
  The bolded bit  just isn't true .  Certainly  for a pc player you could reach say tourpro  and  then just play alt shot  or matchplay against  other tourpros or lower tiers, never saturate  , reap the benefits  of getting better clubs as you level up from the front tees and  be a very a good player .  If that isn't the definition of  sandbagging  and an illustration of how easy it is then I have no idea what is

  
  Well, first of all, a player can be tiered up based on match play. And second of all, if they're sandbagging to simply win alt shot or match play round, where's the real harm? Sure, on a personal level, it could be irritating. But what benefits are they reaping? Additionally, the solutions is simple: don't play those people. 
  But if they enter tournaments and start winning, then they'll be tiered up. 
  
  

  
  I'm well aware of being able to tier up by playing matchplay. I haven't just stepped onto the tees! .  I couldn't  care less whether they   are deliberately  holding onto their tiers or not and it certainly isn't a source of irritation for me . , I was making the point  that in my opinion  there are many decent tour pros at high levels  and the fact that it is easy enough to sandbag if you wished to do so . 
  
  
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  Robert1893 7,475 Posts

  Tue, Mar 2 2021 8:50 AM

  
  
  

   IamNicklaus:
  I was making the point  that in my opinion  there are many decent tour pros at high levels  and the fact that it is easy enough to sandbag if you wished to do so . 

  
  And my point is that if they are sandbagging to earn coins or credits, it will catch up to them fairly quickly. 
  Yes, it's easy to sandbag in the short run. But sandbaggers are unlikely to maintain it for very long, if they are attempting to game the system to earn coins or credits. 
  
  But if they are doing it to simply win alt shot or match play, who cares? I still fail to see what benefits they reap, other than having a good alt shot/match play record. And I'm not sure why anyone would actually even care about that.  
  
  
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  AussieMick11 1,275 Posts

  Tue, Mar 2 2021 4:22 PM

  
  https://www.wgt.com/forums/t/532542.aspx
  history repeating
  
  
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  SimonTheBeetle 3,424 Posts

  Tue, Mar 2 2021 5:49 PM

  
  
  

   AussieMick11:
  history repeating

  
  It sure is. And won't be the last time.
  
  
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  Robert1893 7,475 Posts

  Tue, Mar 2 2021 7:09 PM

  
  
  

   SimonTheBeetle:
  It sure is. And won't be the last time.

  
  
  
  
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  LibTuhrdsSuk 54 Posts

  Wed, Dec 6 2023 9:04 AM

  
  you hit the nail on the head.  Simple fix?: Make equipment based on tier, not level.  Then we wouldn't be playing level 90+ hitting from the short tees.  Wake up wgt.  However, I'm sure the the $$ calculator has an algorithm that determined wgt will sell more stuff using the level.  Because, and we all know this, wgt is just another company figuring ways to earn money.
  
  
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  LibTuhrdsSuk 54 Posts

  Wed, Dec 6 2023 9:06 AM

  
  Far from the truth.  They also play in tournament for credits, which is real $$, and THAT is why it's cheating.
  
  
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  Squatch031 129 Posts

  Thu, Dec 7 2023 1:07 PM

  
  I have been reading serval post related to the WGT "handicap" system, which is what I assume they are trying to do.  As mentioned, it has failed miserably.  You have people with a 150 average at the Legend level and I have no idea how they did it since their average does not meet Legend requirements.  I won't even get into the ranked round requirements.  Here are my two cents on what needs to be done...
  -First off, I assume WGT is trying to create a realistic golf experience.  If so, why is it one has to attain a certain level to get better equipment?  It is not that way in the real world.  Sell equipment to those who are will to buy it, regardless of level or tier, just like the real world.
  -I realize that would be a huge advantage to lower levels from short tees so the "handicap" system would have to be further revised.  I suggest something like a normal handicap system in golf where one logs their scores and a handicap is created.  Problem with that is I am sure there are some who would intentionally "tank" rounds in order to boost their handicap.
  -My initial thought was to have WGT log EVERY score of EVERY round automatically and calculate handicap but again, someone could intentionally tanks rounds to boost handicap.  Maybe something like using ten lowest scores average to calculate handicap.
  -Get rid of apparel bonus clothing!  Again, if attempting to create a realistic golf game, I have never worn any apparel in the real world that increased my ability or distances!
  Not sure what the best answer is, but something needs to change.  Right no we have a cross between an arcade game and an attempt to create a realistic golf experience.
  
  
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  oohaahh 371 Posts

  Sun, Dec 10 2023 10:02 AM

  
  ....but if they were playing in tournaments and winning credits they'd have been tiered up?
  If they're playing in the three tier tee coin rooms then they're not really threatening to do much. The 4.5k maximum win doesn't even cover your ball hits for a 9 hole match...so you couldn't win anyway. I've not seen many TPs in the Montreal room or higher (except when they're lost).
  As WGT claim that beating higher tiered players in coin rooms will in any case get you tiered up if you do it regularly they're clearly not even being successful there....
  A level 90-130 TP should be congratulated for their persistence in playing the game. Sandbaggers tend to win their credit haul at much lower levels....ie third week playing and shooting 8-9 under in tournaments with great clubs....but it's unsustainable for long without getting tiered up or found out and booted...
  
  
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  BobOrr3 4 Posts

  Thu, Dec 14 2023 3:03 PM

  
  I have been stuck in Masters level for a while and now am accused of cheating.  I have no clue on how to Level up
  
  
  
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  LibTuhrdsSuk
  54 Posts
  Wed, Dec 6 2023 9:06 AM
  
  

• LibTuhrdsSuk wrote:
  Far from the truth.  They also play in tournament for credits, which is real $, and THAT is why it's cheating.
  
  

  
  
  

tramilleo wrote:
None of what you said is true tho^^^